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u/mcfuddlebutt 7d ago edited 7d ago
I heard a story on npr about when they executed Topsy the elephant, a bystander attended because he thought it was a lynching, but when he found I out they were executing an elephant he protested and they had to postpone the showing.
People are weird.
Edit: I have looked up and down for this story, does anyone happen to have a link to the story? It was a spoken word segment.
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u/Rithuim 7d ago
Wait why are people executing an elephant?
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u/Muted_Aioli 7d ago edited 7d ago
Her drunk handler decided to ride her in town out of spite for Coney’s island police department
Topsy tried to batter her way through the station door and "she set up a terrific trumpeting", leading the officers to take refuge in the cells. The handler was fired after the incident.
Without Alt (the handler) to handle Topsy, the owners of Luna Park, Frederick Thompson and Elmer Dundy, claimed they could no longer handle the elephant and tried to get rid of her, but they could not even give her away and no other circus or zoo would take her. On December 13, 1902, Luna Park press agent Charles Murray released a statement to the newspapers that Topsy would be put to death within a few days by electrocution. At least one local paper noted that the steady drone of events and reports regarding Topsy from the park had the hallmarks of a publicity campaign designed to get the new park continually mentioned in the papers.
The whole Wikipedia article is a wild ride: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_(elephant))
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u/FlattopJr 7d ago
Topsy was fed carrots laced with 460 grams of potassium cyanide, electrocuted and strangled, the electrocution being the final cause of death. Among the invited press that day was a crew from the Edison Manufacturing movie company who filmed the event. Their film of the electrocution part was released to be viewed in coin-operated kinetoscopes under the title Electrocuting an Elephant. It is probably the first filmed death of an animal in history.
Dang. And yes, the film still exists (it's viewable on its own Wikipedia page, linked in the Topsy article).
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u/SomeCuteCatBoy 7d ago
During her 25 years at Forepaugh, Topsy gained a reputation as a "bad" elephant and, after killing a spectator in 1902, was sold to Coney Island's Sea Lion Park.
You seriously just gonna leave out that she killed someone?
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u/Ruuubs 7d ago
That tends to happen when you abuse animals that are capable of fighting back, yes
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u/mcfuddlebutt 7d ago
You're gonna have to click the did you mean link, reddit is being dumb
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u/Rithuim 7d ago
So a bunch of drunk people attacked an elephant, and people exaggerated it, so they killed him.
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u/ProfEvilProfessor 7d ago
A lot of lynching victims were accused of crimes they didn’t commit, which let people convince themselves that if it was happening then the victim must have done something to “deserve” it. Animals on the other hand can’t be held to human morality, so that logic starts to break down
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u/Ocularias 7d ago
A lot of lynching victims were accused of crimes they didn’t commit, which let people convince themselves that if it was happening then the victim must have done something to “deserve” it.
And now you understand why the USA has the highest amount of prisoners per capita (and total) of any country on Earth.
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u/Automatic_Release_92 7d ago
What does that have to do with lynching?
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u/Ocularias 7d ago
It's the same mindset a lot of juries have. If someone is in court, they must have done something to be there.
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u/Automatic_Release_92 7d ago
That’s a bit of a stretch in my opinion. The vast majority of people in prisons weren’t convicted by a jury.
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u/machinegunsyphilis 2d ago
I guess in the way that they both have a history in reinforcing white supremacy. Both lynching and prisons disproportionally affected Black Americans.
13th amendment of the US Constitution allows slavery as long as the person is in prison. And lynching was a way to terrorize poor people, primarily Black folks.
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u/Justice_Prince 7d ago edited 7d ago
I guess I read that wrong. I thought he was angry because he wasted his time waiting to watch an execution just to find that that they were only killing some crummy elephant.
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u/elhomerjas 7d ago
seems the strike is causing more chaotic strikes
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u/MomentRadiant2388 7d ago
It's a very bad thing, they won't get their values for going on a disorderly strike.
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u/Patimation_tordios 7d ago
“Teachers, Animals, same thing right?”
-That guy
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u/TheHumanPickleRick 7d ago
Just like turtles and rabbits are the same thing too apparently.
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u/sje46 7d ago
One sign says save the turtles, the other sign says rabbits are people too. It's not an anti-turtle-cruelty protest, it's an anti-animal cruelty protest. The comic creator just communicated the idea either poorly or deliberately humorously (which I guess is why he called rabbits people).
The two signs aren't supposed to be the same sentence. That isn't typically how protest signs work lol
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u/Zodiarche1111 7d ago
Or it's an specific anti-turtle-and-rabbit-cruelty-protest. They should settle their disputes in more harmless ways, such as racing.
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u/poopellar 7d ago
Yeah except one is a cheating pos.
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u/Itriedtonot 7d ago
Which one cheats?
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u/hoooliet 7d ago
Yeah the turtle didn’t cheat. Won fair and square. The hare is a little prideful punk!
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u/innocuousspeculation 7d ago
Dude you need to get over it. Rabbits aren't meant to be monogamous, stop trying to date them.
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u/mexicodoug 7d ago
To be fair, humans, turtles, and rabbits are all animals. Teachers, being a subset of humans, are therefore also animals.
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u/PoliwagPi4554 7d ago
i mean literally all teachers are animals
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u/jhugh 7d ago
The internet videos of them are better than the real life versions. So they've got that in common.
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u/PoliwagPi4554 7d ago
hows that related to my statement?
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7d ago
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u/DarthKey 7d ago
What industry you in?
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/CruxOfTheIssue 7d ago
What's a good way to get into this? I have a bachelor's in computer science and no leads on a job
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u/MKatson 7d ago
That took me a moment. Man if only I had better reading comprehension.
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u/llemonjuiice 7d ago
Can you explain it to me please?
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u/innocuousspeculation 7d ago
Yeah there's a guy shouting some words at people with signs. They respond with what I assume are also words. Then he says something to them. Hope that helps!
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u/GoldFishPony 7d ago
Guy is angry at the implication that teachers deserve more pay but he can’t read, implying he never paid attention in school and that he never learned from his teachers.
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u/Kukuran 7d ago
"ThEy onLY wOrK 9 MoNThS oF ThE YeAr"
- someone that's never talked to a teacher
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u/AlwaysLosingAtLife 7d ago
tHeY'rE gLoRiFiEd bAbYSiTtErS wHo dOn'T dEsErVe a LiViNg wAgE fOr fiNgEr pAiNtiNg aLL dAy.
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u/ReadyThor 7d ago
As a teacher I wish I was paid the babysitter rate for each student I teach.
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u/patkgreen 7d ago
85% of the world would want that
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u/ReadyThor 7d ago
The world does not want to pay teachers as babysitters because then they would be too damn expensive and people would end up having to teach their own children.
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u/1Eternallylost 7d ago
The scary thought is what those parents would be teaching their kids.
A 5 minute conversation with many of these parents should scare you.
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u/MorganWick 7d ago
"I should pull my kids out and homeschool them so they don't get brainwashed with the (((liberal deep state agenda))) that teaches them such things as science and history as opposed to the Bible and how great America is!"
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u/patkgreen 7d ago
That's not what I said. If you were paid a babysitter rate for each child, you would be extraordinarily well off. $100-200/hr.
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u/Jonno_FTW 7d ago
wHy ArEnT YoU rEcOgNisiNg Timmy aS THe cHiLd PrOdIGy hE iS???!!!
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u/OFTHEHILLPEOPLE 7d ago
"ThOsE wHo CaN't Do, TeAcH. HuE hUe HuE!"
If ever there was a clear sign of failure in education it's people who sling this phrase at teachers.
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u/Jonno_FTW 7d ago
People who wasted their time in school and fail to see the point suddenly don't see the value in teachers.
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u/noble_peace_prize 7d ago
“I learned more out of this video than a year in biology!”
“…we showed this video in biology”
Another way people tattle on themselves for not paying attention for shit
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u/trueforeigner 7d ago
Those confederates and drooling idiot conservatives sure did rot this country out
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u/Jirafayette 7d ago
I resigned from education to become a nanny and my pay nearly doubled along with my free time
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u/TheLostHippos 7d ago
Quit long term subbing when the private school offered me a full time math teacher position despite me not having certifications for my state. turns out I could teach at that private school with just a bachelors. I switched to dog training and I still get all the joy of teaching but much better pay and sweeter clients.
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u/Turnip45 7d ago
Even if they were just that they’re still underpaid. I reckon most teachers would be more than happy being paid the local standard babysitting rate per hour for each family with a kid in their class.
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u/ObjEngineer 7d ago
Complete tangent, but one of the things that made me lose a lot of respect for CGP Grey is how he talked on his podcast about how teachers are largely just babysitters for workers.
He himself was a teacher and told stories about how "the cynical / pragmatic teachers were the ones who stay with the job, and the idealistic ones leave the profession"
And he somehow doesn't seem to put 2 and 2 together to realize why that's maybe a systematic problem with teaching and maybe the way we structure our entire economy
/rant
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u/dannypdanger 7d ago
I taught sixth grade. I was definitely a glorified babysitter, in addition to my actual teaching job.
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u/aaronitallout 7d ago
You joke, but there's already someone in your replies who doesn't get it, and I've had people on here use that as a justification as why they're paid so little.
"yOU'lL gET pAiD mORe iF YoU wOrK mORe HoUrS!"
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u/cuentaderana 7d ago
I had this exact conversation with someone. She said I could just get a real job and work year round like everyone else. Never mind the PDs, currículum development, time to lesson plan and set up my classroom, and other things. Until very recently I also did summer school every year.
She also complained that her boyfriend was making only a few thousand more than me despite working “full time.” But he was in his first year at a job with a bachelor’s degree. I had a master’s and 7 years experience and still was making less.
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u/Valkyrie5984 7d ago
Oof...yeah. Im not a teacher, but I am well aware that teachers aren't spending the 3 months of the summer on a tropical beach...though they would totally deserve such a nice vacation for all the nonsense they have to put up with for their current pay =(
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u/iamwizzerd 7d ago
Unfortunately people will argue with you and call you extreme while the government may label you a terrorist if you are anti animal cruelty.
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u/DinosRoar 7d ago
Same with Reddit tbf.
Anti-animal cruelty = tons of upvotes
Anti-animal cruelty (Vegan) = tons of downvotes.
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u/Poorly_Made_Comix 7d ago
Animal cruelty is bad
But steak is delicious
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u/DinosRoar 7d ago
Poe's law in action.
I can't tell if you're being funny by satirising a stupid thing people sometimes say or if you're just genuinely saying it
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u/imundead 7d ago
Well, it is the one and only argument for eating meat. If it tasted horrible, nobody would eat it.
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u/AmbiguousAnonymous 7d ago
As a vegetarian I have to say it is definitely not the only argument for eating meat.
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u/littleessi 7d ago
maybe the only one that's not inherently and objectively wrong
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u/AmbiguousAnonymous 7d ago
Perhaps you are unaware of the amount of poverty in the world and the need for hunting in some corners of it.
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u/PackOfStallions 7d ago edited 7d ago
Like protein?
Edit: accessible and affordable protein.
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u/iamwizzerd 7d ago
Ya beans are so expensive
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u/PackOfStallions 7d ago
My body doesn’t digest beans or legumes but fuck me I guess.
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u/imundead 7d ago
Okay. What other reason is there?
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u/AmbiguousAnonymous 7d ago
How about necessity? The Inuit, the Ayoreo, and the Awá are three groups of peoples that still live in Hunter gatherer societies, and there is way more than that. Many do not have the economic means to cross the poverty threshold and “live a modern life.”
And while they may be responsible for animal death, they don’t have the moral burden of child slavery for precious metals that each of us on Reddit have to own, or the fossil fuel impact of going to buy those vegan groceries, or the impact on landfills. The world is not so black and white and every choice, not just the choice of a dinner, impacts the world at large and the suffering of individual life.
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u/imundead 7d ago
Alright we can have an exception for those people and the other 7.999 billion people can use the tasty excuse.
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u/OG-Pine 7d ago
It’s likely anywhere from a couple to several billion who need meat in their diet out of necessity. Most of the world doesn’t have the vegan diet luxuries of the west. Nuts are difficult and expense to farm, many high protein foods can be regional, things like the correct micro-nutrients can be difficult to obtain without access to a large grocery store with a variety of goods, etc etc
Much of world live in rural areas where they grow and gather their own food. Many more have access to food stores but not nearly to the same extent as richer countries. And even more will have access to a good grocery store but it will still lack nutritionally complete vegan friendly foods.
I’m thinking specifically of places like rural areas of Nepal or nearby countries. Under developed areas of Africa, rural areas in Papua New Guinea, tribal or other indigenous populations, etc
Then there’s the cultural and economic side of things, which aren’t going to be as severe as nutritionally deficiency, but of course are still worth considering.
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u/no_moar_red 7d ago
Cooked meat is the reason the human species has evolved to become the most advanced species on earth.
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u/Calfredie01 7d ago
Alright, but what does that have to say about eating meat TODAY “slavery was the system that made the United States south into the economic superpower it is today” would I’m sure be an argument that pro slavers put forth.
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u/panzermuffin 7d ago
And now we dont need it because were not cavemans with smooth brains anymore and can easily replace it. I ear one B12 pill per week, absolutely no problem whatsoever abd a very small "price".
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u/Mr-Fleshcage 7d ago
I wouldn't count on B12 pills always being available. We still have a baby food and OTC med shortage
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u/LethalVegan 7d ago
That's untrue. Animal flesh was not consumed in large amounts prior to settlements and agriculture, plants were. Increasing access to consumable plant parts (i.e. the tuber rather than just the leaves) increased caloric intake which grew the human brain. Specifically, more carbohydrates grew the human brain.
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u/Platomuses 7d ago
That's a pretty big statement to make.
I'd argue it's shared knowledge and written language, but I'd love to hear how cooked meat made humans more advanced.
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u/HermitBee 7d ago
Eating meat nowadays isn't necessary. We can absolutely survive without it. But the fact that cooking meat was one of the drivers of human evolution is pretty widely known, and not remotely controversial.
Obviously written language also played a huge part in the advancement of humans, but it doesn't have to be one or the other.
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u/lapidls 7d ago
Why specifically written? The language itself is the thing that made humans.
Also animals share knowledge too. That's one of the reasons why rehabilitating them is hard
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u/LethalVegan 7d ago
It's not cooked meat, just cooked food in general. Cooking food reduces water content and increases calorie content. Access to animal flesh was limited while access to plants with tubers was abundant.
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u/1Eternallylost 7d ago
I was going to trot out the theory that we humans went from prey to predator - which made meat eating possible.
But there's physiological reasons for not accepting this theory. Namely, prey animals generally have widespread eyes for maximum area visual coverage. Predator eyes are closer together for binocular vision (depth perception). This does not change overnight, nor over a mere few million years. Yet our eyes are solidly in the binocular set - strongly suggesting that we were never a prey species. Even our cousins - apes and monkeys - all have binocular vision. If we were ever a prey species, it was hundreds of millions of years ago - before we were even primates.
Sorry if this seems a bit tangential.
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u/Apprehensive_Hat8986 7d ago
Looks at the slop people are fed all around the world.
If it tasted horrible, nobody would eat it.
Not by choice, but by necessity people will eat truly heinous things. Hunger is a far more powerful motivator than taste.
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u/imundead 7d ago
Sure, but I don't think anyone is going to call the vegan not a vegan for eating meat in a survival situation. Well, anyone who isn't a dick anyway.
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u/PackOfStallions 7d ago
“Starve people and they’ll eat almost anything”
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u/LostN3ko 7d ago
Situational ethics. Eating people is normally wrong. To the Donner party it was not wrong as no other options for food existed.
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u/horazath 7d ago
It also has a good amount of nutritional value that needs to be supplemented otherwise if you avoid it entirely. It's not terrible, but it can be annoying.
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u/littleessi 7d ago
"good amount" is generous. there are like two necessary vitamins that are added to stuff like soy milk anyway, at least where i live.
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u/lolopiro 7d ago
i assume when people eat meat for nutrition, is mostly bc its easier to meet protein goals with meat, im not sure if thats entirely true but thats what ive heard
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u/Decertilation 7d ago
Technically it's not true. In terms of nutritional density, many seeds outcompete meat by weight.
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u/Cake-Fyarts 7d ago
There’s definitely a middle ground between being a vegan and being okay with the Kafka-esque nightmare that is industrial meat production. I have no issues with eating meat but the way slaughterhouses are run are just horrific.
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u/Appropriate_Tear_711 7d ago
Well I don't like animal cruelty, I'm a green voting biologist, but I still hunt, and eat meat. You don't have to go all in on things.
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u/Sergio_Canalles 7d ago
All in? Vegans aren't asking you to be an animal rights activist and start fire bombing slaughter houses and rescue animals. They are asking you to do the bare fking minimum, which is to not actively and intentionally harm non-human animals for trivial pleasures. Just because they are not human.
Before you respond, all of your objections can be found here: yourveganfallacyis.com
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u/Labulous 7d ago
Bare fucking minimum as if not depriving yourself of a cornerstone of the human diet is no big deal.
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u/macness234 7d ago
Lol wow, the person you replied to was right! I couldn’t find the exact one you displayed in your comment, but these are pretty close:
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u/Labulous 7d ago
He also deleted a comment a bit ago where he used the strawman fallacy.
The fact of the matter is we can not morally or ethically ban meat with out having a wide nutrition crisis on our hands.
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u/Acid_Braindrops 7d ago
You sound like a tool
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u/DancelessMoms 7d ago
lmfao i eat meat but nothing they said is false. why shit on them for having a damn-near objectively correct stance??
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u/Decertilation 7d ago
They've already provided sources that are opinion pieces and discredit themselves.
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u/Appropriate_Tear_711 7d ago
How convenient to have a blog think for you:) I'm sure you can connect anything I say to something on that website. You just have to accept we have different values.
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u/Labulous 7d ago
Incoming rant from someone that doesn’t know what the term cognitive dissonance actually means.
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u/RAMAR713 7d ago
You make it seem paradoxical, but that's far form the truth. One must understand that the concept of Cruelty differs massively from omnivores to vegans. Once you understand this, the disagreements start making perfect sense.
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u/ishtaria_ranix 7d ago
The word need to be strictly defined, which is very difficult just like with any other words in existence.
For me and maybe some, it's fine to kill animals for food as long as it's done as painlessly as possible.
For some, death itself is cruelty, so there is no compromise possible. Don't kill animals for food, full stop.
At this point maybe we should just grow meat in vats to solve this problem? I'm a firm believer in solving problems with human ingenuity.
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u/RAMAR713 7d ago
At this point maybe we should just grow meat in vats to solve this problem? I'm a firm believer in solving problems with human ingenuity.
We're making progress in this department as well as the fake meat alternatives. Nothing is impossible, we just need time to reach a decent product and production method.
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u/Gravelsack 7d ago
Eating meat =/= Cruelty
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u/DinosRoar 7d ago
Eating meat =/= cruelty
Getting meat in literally any way === cruelty
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u/rferg3 7d ago
Yeah the deer I kill sure suffer when I end their life in under 15 seconds. Would have been much more peaceful letting a coyote chase it for 20 miles and eat it alive.
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u/DinosRoar 7d ago
Can we do anything wed like to an animal as long as it only lasts 15 seconds?
You do not have to kill it, so anything you do or don't do is already unnecessary.
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u/rferg3 7d ago
Wrong. How many animals is crop farming responsible for killing? I can promise you it’s in the hundreds of billions. You just only care about making yourself feel better than others. I did have to kill it, for sustenance, that’s the way the world works.
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u/headinthestarrs 7d ago
Most crop farming done today is done to feed to livestock animals. Since you need fewer crops to feed humans instead of animals, if everyone were to go vegan there would be LESS overall deaths due to crop farming than there is now.
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u/TheWorldConqueror 7d ago
Eating meat isn't cruelty under the right conditions.
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u/InfamousFondant 7d ago
Humour me, what would be the right conditions for it not to be cruelty?
Isn’t killing an animal that doesn’t want to die, only because we enjoy it, cruel in all scenarios?
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u/Terelius 7d ago edited 7d ago
I know this is usually used as a patronizing argument but I would like to hear your answer to the question. Are carnivorous animals inherently cruel, and if we say that cruelty is evil, does that make them evil?
What's the typical rationale that we should go from being omnivores to herbivores? We can therefore we should or is it something else? We are better than simple minded meat eating animals so that's no excuse?
My sister was vegan for many years and she did it for animal cruelty reasons. She didn't think that everyone should stop eating meat full stop though.
I understand that for something like this where you just consider it objectively morally wrong, there's not much to say about it, but I'd like to discuss it in case I can be convinced.
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u/InfamousFondant 7d ago
/u/Decertilation put it really well, it all comes down to agency and choice. As far as I understand it, a lion cannot make an informed choice between eating meat and not. By it's nature as a carnivorous animal with no moral agency, the action of eating meat can't be seen as cruel.
We, however, as humans living in modern societies, have access to multiple options that we can choose from when it comes to diet. We should strive to find the option that leads to the least amount of harm afflicted to others and ourselves. There is no perfect option, veganism is not perfect itself. By definition though, the goal is to cause the least amount of harm, as far as possible and practicable. What it means in practice varies for each individual depending on circumstances, but for the mass majority of us eating animals is not going to be the most ethical choice.
Comparing ourselves to carnivorous animals is a red herring in my opinion though, we don't strive to emulate lion pack behavior in our every day life, simply because we are not lions. It's be like someone justifying eating infants is ethical because lions do it.
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u/Decertilation 7d ago
Here's a common thought:
Animals incapable of philosophizing do not carry moral agency. This is true also for young humans. Any punishments we apply to them are often based on an underlying idea of agency. A baby can't knowingly do something we would consider wrong, so it would carry no punishment. As the agency increases, so does the punishment.
Someone who possess agency but has yet to hear a case for why their actions may be wrong would not be good targets for punishment either.
Cases of necessity also offset wrongdoing in the belief of many.
We also wouldn't be going from omnivores to herbivores necessarily. We would still be omnivorous physiologically. But yes, the argument is that if it is within our capability to do so, and it causes less harm to other beings (including other humans), we should do so.
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u/dark_dark_dark_not 7d ago
Ok, are you willing to send your dog for slaughter in the right conditions?
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u/Valkyrie5984 7d ago
I actually wouldn't mind being associated with ALF (Animal Liberation Front), at least they are "terrorists" who don't murder people...unlike the government and their proxy-wars with other countries.
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u/RedditIsNeat0 7d ago
Is ALF (Animal Liberation Front) anything like LABIA (Liberate Apes Before Imprisoning Apes)?
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u/Labulous 7d ago
Ya well it’s an extremist point of view telling people what they can and can’t eat.
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u/iamwizzerd 7d ago
Your right. I will come eat your legs because it would be extreme of you to stop me.
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u/Labulous 7d ago
It wouldn’t be extreme to stop someone trying to harm you.
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u/War_Daddy 7d ago
But trying to stop harm to others is extreme?
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u/Labulous 7d ago
It is. Comparing animals to humans on moral equality is an extreme view.
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u/LethalVegan 7d ago
The basis of all oppression is dehumanization. Non-Vegans think it's okay to treat nonhumans with cruelty and injustice, therefore dehumanized humans can be treated the same. Vegans do not practice dehumanization, non-Vegans do.
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u/Sunblast1andOnly 7d ago
I've always seen myself as an extremist for being against cannibalism.
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u/Labulous 7d ago
Moronic take and Strawman fallacy.
A majority of people do not agree with Veganism and because of that they by definition hold an extreme view.
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u/veggiegoddess 7d ago
You’re moving the goal posts. You said it’s extremist to tell people what they can and can’t eat. Therefore, it’s extremist to tell people they can’t eat other humans, right?
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u/Deathtostroads 7d ago
We need more people protesting animal cruelty! Also teachers deserve so much more money!
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u/himynameiswillf 7d ago
I agree, but unfortunately most people only care (and I use that word loosely) about animal cruelty to animals they don't already abuse for food.
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u/mexicodoug 7d ago
I am a retired teacher, myself. However, I must admit that the huge percentage of people with high school degrees incapable of thinking critically indicates reason to question the value of the educational system as it is, including the value of the teachers who are passing, rather than failing, such unreasoning students from first through twelfth grades.
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u/KnightsWhoNi 7d ago
Uhh…why did the signs change
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u/Ouaouaron 7d ago
There are more than two people protesting, and the sign on the left in panel 2 is not the same as the sign on the right in panel 3.
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u/Sassycouchpotato 7d ago
“Dem teachers are making them kids gays” -jimmy 30 year old guy who lives in his moms basement
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u/PoeticDichotomy 7d ago
..did your teachers teach you how to read?
Sounds like a parenting failure.
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u/IllUseTheDamnApp 7d ago
If the teachers can't teach a guy to read maybe they don't deserve that pay rise.
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u/DickRidingWhore 7d ago
I feel like the commenters are missing the point when they focus on animal rights over teacher's rights, which ironically enough echoes the comic's message.
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u/Human-Tumbleweed-131 7d ago
The teachers don't deserver higher pay because they cant teach....Garbage cartoon.
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u/Leather_Arachnid5557 7d ago
I bet this did numbers in whatever imaginary argument the author had going on in his head.
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u/ReallyBigDeal 7d ago
Are you struggling to follow along? People who protest against raising teacher pay are stupid.
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